A Dialog On Christianity and Homosexuality
Recently I had a great dialog with a friend of mine on this topic and, with her permission, here is a shortened version. Feel free to jump in the discussion.
Person #1: you think mainstream Christians need to “understand” homosexuality?
Person #2: I think it is of the utmost importance to understand it, so that you can dialog with people intelligently without sounding ignorant and close-minded
Person #2: I don’t think people just just follow something blindly, I think they should see the issue on both sides, so they can better understand both sides…only then will they be able to effectively “convince” people of their ways
Person #2: Does that make sense?
Person #1: I’ll never understand why we need to dialogue about a sin. We need to HELP them get out of it yes of course, but do we talk drug addiction to death, or porn addiction to death?”:
Person #1: yes I agree we need to lovingly help all sinners our of their sin if they’ll let us, but sowing seeds of discord among the brethren is not a good idea, God will not honor that
Person #2: In that scenario you may be right. However, the issue of homosexuality is not viewed in that same light. For many Christians, it is more of a grey area
Person #1: I watched Bringing Up Boys dvd program and they have men on their that have been freed from this addiciton, its very enlightening
Person #1: how can the bible be grey “Jack”? I’ve never spoken to a Christian that thought homosexuality was a grey area
Person #2: Yeah, but you cannot ignore that 95% do not get freed…I jus tthink we need to be neutral to mainsteam Christianity, and using words like “the homosexual anti-christian agenda” is very demeaning in my opinion
Person #1: Romans 1:26-27: “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet.”
Person #2: Check out this poll on the issue….quizilla.com/polls/result/9274942
Person #2: I cannot begin to understand God and his infinite wisdom. However, I firmly believe that it is not Christians job to condemn anyone. You can witness in a loving manner, but to make them feel like enemies is just backwards to Jesus’ teaching
Person #2: And you saying that you never understood why you should know the issue…..I don’t understand that. To be knowledgeable about an issue as controversial as this, is to be able to dialog intelligently with people.
Person #2: If someone was trying to persude a Muslim to convert to Christianity, they would have to provide compelling arguments on WHY they should make that change. Why would you listen to someone who just says “Because I said so, or Because that is the way it has always been”.
Person #1: Here’s the main thing…God offers freedom from our sins through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ so whether it be homosexuality, fornication, thievery, bitterness, whatever, we can be forgiven and freed. There are many former homosexuals who are now Christians and have normal heterosexual desires and who no longer practice homosexuality. And maybe they can still be tempted to go back to the old ways but through the power of God’s Holy Spirit, they are no longer a slave to that sin.
Person #2: I firmly believe that having a homosexual attraction is not a sin. People are born with tendancies…it is the rising above acting upon those tendancies (much like a child who is born addicted to alcohol has the predisposition to abuse it)
Person #2: I do not hate anyone who is gay. Sin is sin and we all have it.
To me, the difference is in repentance. I have a sinful nature in overeating and w/ pride issues. I don’t see those as being any less sinful than homosexuality. But, I actively try to correct those wrongs. I actively work in not falling into those sins.
Person #2: This is a really interesting forum…gaychristianforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=30&sid=3d9bed216555779b8a652cc34843b5dc
Person #1: ok, I read all this and I actually agree with you
Person #1: so I’m not sure why it seems you are on a different side than me but something doesn’t feel right
Person #1: homosexuality is a sin, it is not grey, and it is sin, as bad as my sin of divorce
Person #1: I have no hate for gays, but i hate that sin
Person #1: it kills people
Person #1: it blinds people
Person #2: you said, ” you think mainstream Christians need to “understand” homosexuality?”
Person #1: and God said its an abomination
Person #1: I guess I don’t know what you mean by “understand”
Person #2: Have you done any studies on the greek text of the Bible?
Person #1: I understand alcoholism, but I don’t excuse it, condone it, or whatever, just help people get out of a destructive lifestyle
Person #1: not an awful lot, I did try to study up on the differences int he translations
Person #2: The words that God used like “sodomy” have multiple meanings… I just don’t believe it is as cut and dry as you are saying
Person #1: that’s too bad
Person #2: IT is beyond the translations…it is in the actual meaning of the words in the original language
Person #1: women having unnatural desires towards their own kinds
Person #1: that’s pretty cut and dry
Person #2: So why would you just accept something without knowing all the facts
Person #1: I know my bible
Person #2: Having the desire is a sin? I thought you said it was the acting upon it?
Person #1: so many people are buying itnot satan’s lie that they dont have a choice in this, that they were born this way, that god isn’t against it
Person #1: sodom and gemmorah all over again 
Person #1: if having the desire is wrong, then acting on it certainly is a sin…
Person #2: I am not saying I know the answers…I just believe faith is a neverending process in which you grow, dialog, and formulate your beliefs….to be in God’s image
Person #2: So someone that was born a crack-baby, you think it is a sin for them to crave crack…even though they cannot help it on a genetic level?
Person #1: you have GOT to be strong! we all need to be strong, we cannot buy into the devils lies that we need to be more tolerant, LOVING yes, tolerant NO
Person #2: Jesus was the most tolerant person that ever lived!!!!!
Person #1: of course not, a baby isn’t the same, but if that baby ate crack so satisfy his unnatural desires, it would be a sin
Person #1: of course I know a baby can’t do that though
Person #2: But you said that gay DESIRES are a sin
Person #1: Jesus? Tolerant? Pharisees, hypocrites, divider of families… he wasn’t tolerant, he called sin, SIN, but He was so loving about it
Person #1: whats the difference here with this word desires?
Person #2: So Jesus went up to the prostitutes and yelled at them, making them feel like the enemy?
Person #1: He was loving, but he said tot he woman that man you live with isn’t your husband either, but I forgive you
Person #1: look, no one is saying blast the gay people
Person #1: we do need to be smart
Person #2: That is my main point….people in this world who don’t hold your values with NEVER listen to what you have to say, if you come across holier than thou…
Person #1: but we also have to be strong
Person #2: Right, and I thought the language that the title used and the first line, was very negative…we need to be positive
Person #2: Yes, you can stay strong without being mean
Person #1: considering the very organization that sent me that email, is so loving and so helpful, I was sure it would be okay
Person #2: You can say, look, I don’t understand what you are going through, and I personally believe that how you are living is wrong, but in no way does it make sense to try and “make them see their evil ways” immediately, is not right in my opinion
Person #2: And that poll I sent confirms that many people do not see it as black and white as you do
Person #1: they know its evil, we don’t need to make them see that, and that is not what anyone is trying to do, we try to free them from bondage
Person #2: I think practicing homosexuality is a sin. I just think we need to be informed and understand it, so we can better spread the good news
Person #2: They don’t know it is evil though…that is the point!!!
Person #1: they know
Person #1: God puts it in us
Person #2: “Jill”…c’mon…
Person #1: we all know when stuff is wrong, we live in denial
Person #2: Does a remote tribe that has never heard the gospel know they are sinning by not being a Christian?
Person #1: i firmly believe they know its wrong, its unnatural, but they just don’t care, like the druggie doesn’t care
Person #1: that one is harder to figure out
Person #2: If God puts it in us, they should just automatically be a christian?
Person #1: homosexuality is an easy one, just like you said abused boys get it a lot, its a product of upbringing
Person #2: That is the point though…it isn’t black and white…we will never know….only God has the right to judge…only the sinless have the right…and that just happens to be God
Person #2: And yes, in that situation it is still wrong, but you have to be sympathetic to what they are going through
Person #2: and not to make them feel like the enemy of Christians…
Person #1: I guess I don’t undersnta what you mean by we will never know
Person #1: you say you belive then you say we dont know
Person #2: I am saying God is very clear in saying that it is not our place to judge
Person #1: yeah, I am sympathetic
Person #2: I have family living this lie
Person #2: How is saying “the gays “anti-christian agenda”" sound loving and non-judging?
Person #1: we don’t have to be judging, to be trying to help people out of a destructive life
Person #2: But “Jill”, I just gave you a link to a poll that confirmed that your belief is on the very conservative edge of the Christian faith
Person #2: answer my question about the wording of the title and first line
Person #1: I do know I’m more conservative then most
Person #2: “Jill”…the poll I sent you just stated that 50% of Christians do not believe it is wrong
Person #1: I don’t agree with you, and I’m rereading the title and first line, it is strong, like my Lord is, and geared to rile up Christians to not let the gay agenda be pushed down our children’s throats
Person #2: and regardless of that, that is no excuse for bashing gays…
Person #1: I would say that particular poll is probably wrong then, but like you said, we are not God and do not know that. And besides just because people become more and more liberal as time goes on, doesn’t make it right.
Person #2: Right, it doesn’t. I agree
Person #1: I don’t see the word enemy anywhere? Nobody said they were the enemy.
Person #2: But I also think that one person shouldn’t be so close-minded to think that everyone else is in the wrong and their opinion is stupid
Person #1: No one person shouldn’t , unless it is God and in His very Word.
Person #2: “Orchestrated Attempt to Undermine Our Efforts” “intolerant nature of the homosexual agenda”
Person #2: But I just informed you that the words god uses have been translated over time…and have many different meanings
Person #1: “Jack”, do not the Christian bashers use words like that to rile up their troops and get them moving???
Person #1: That doesn’t make you right.
Person #2: Yes, but two wrongs don’t make a right
Person #1: My bible is infallible.
Person #2: That is the point…we should be better than them
Person #1: so how do you get a Christian excited enough to want to go out and fight the devil?
Person #1: have another pot luck?
Person #2: So you are saying that the ends justify the means?
Person #2: read this…it talks about the greek translation
Person #2: christianteens.about.com/od/whatthebiblesaysabout/a/wbsaHomosexual.htm
Person #1: I see what it takes to get people movving…
Person #2: So the ends justify the means…I strongly disagree with that.
Person #2: This article shows that so much interpretation can be applied to the texts people use to quote
Person #2: And my whole point is that you should not be so firm and “strong” in what you believe, when a person doesn’t even know that it is debatable….we shouldn’t believe just because someone tells us we should…we should believe as a result of a journey that we have taken…life is a journey of faith
Person #1: I skimmed it pretty well, I’ll read it slower later, but I don’t think we should nit pick a single word in the scripture, if meanings are unclear, you have to take the bible in as a whole
Person #1: God is Holy
Person #2: No!
Person #2: You need to be informed!
Person #1: Very Holy
Person #2: Yes, but God wants us to make choices on our own…not because it is what we have been taught
Person #1: well I see that point, so thats why we have to teach our children right
Person #1: and yes, i would be much gentler in my language with kids
Person #2: You can guide them…but not force it down their throat….
Person #1: this article was to rally the troops, I don’t see why you dont see that
Person #2: An example to reiterate…. in Leviticus 20:13 it says “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
Person #2: So if the Bible is infalible….does that mean that we should put gay people to death?
Person #1: old testamant
Person #1: we dont live under the law anymore
Person #2: But you said the Bible….
Person #1: we have an old and a new
Person #1: you know this\
Person #1: one is law, one is grace
Person #1: they are both infallible and the NT shows us the grace of God
Person #1: but still clearly hates sin
Person #2: Did jesus ever speak out about homosexuals? I don’t even know?
Person #1: good question, I’m not sure, but the Holy Spirit wrote the bible thorugh the apostles so He did
Person #2: OK, I can appreciate that…but I am just trying to show that really it isn’t cut and dry…the act maybe so…but not the disposition and attraction
Person #2: It is kind of like the topic of divorce…read http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html which talks about the same greek word translations and such
Person #1: I’m fine with that. I wish I could have a cigarette, but I wont because thats a sin, in my opinion.
Person #2: That is the point I am trying to make
Person #2: Why is that a sin? body is a temple?
Person #1: thats fine “Jack”, we seem to be saying a lot of the same things
Person #2: Right, I agree
Person #1: but I lean towards the stronger point of view
Person #2: the stronger?
Person #1: just so you know, I wouldn’t say it like that to the gay people, I’d be kinder
Person #1: tougher? stronger? more conservative?
Person #2: was the cig example because of the body is a temple part in the Bible….if so, under your beliefs, wouldn’t eating at mcdonalds be a sin too?
Person #2: but it isn’t stronger in many people’s opinions…that is the point
Person #1: cigs are an addiction, addictions are sin
Person #2: but the bible clearly says that your body is a temple…so anytime you eat a french fry, is that a sin?
Person #2: If you believe the Bible is word for word….no room for interpretation…then you would believe that…
Person #2: OK, I gotta get back to work. I have enjoyed talking about this, and hopfully you aren’t offended about anything…let me know if you are. I just really believe that everyone should know the issues they believe inside out.
Person #2: I believe that is our duty as Christians…and to be the most effective in our walk with Christ
Person #2: and spread the good news…why would you listen to a teacher who knew less about the subject then the student you know?
Person #1: I’m not offended, frustrated yes, because I worry about the world my children are growin up in, but maybe Jesus will come back soon
Person #2: To close our discussion…I firmly believe that my faith will never stopped being shaped and transformed. Therefore, I want to soak up all the knowledge and viewpoints I can, while remaining as objective as possible. Too much can be called counterdicting, and I want to understand the immense depth behind the subject matter…for example the meaning of greek words. Thanks for talking about this with me
Person #1: I firmly believe that my God is Holy and real and has spoken to me on this subject. Maybe not with books and greek text but in my heart
Person #2: Yeah, I think I am just more of a logical person, and want to know WHY I believe something. Both ways are equaly fine…just difference in personalities
Person #2: Now, there is enough crazy stuff in the world where it is more and more important to know WHY you believe what you believe you know? For example, there are crazy people who truely believe in their heart that there are dragons and alligators out to get them…haha
Person #1: lol really? I understand what you are saying, really I do, but real faith is believing without seeing, and just knowing your Father well enough, to know what He is all about.
Person #2: Right, and I know that things will never be explained…but I also believe that we need to use the freedom that God has given us, to formulate our own image of God
Person #1: Absolutely. Amazing though isn’t it, how we are both doing that, and believe the basic same thing, but in such a different way.
Person #2: Yeah…that just shows you how complex God and Faith is….yet how ridiculously simple it is at the same time.
Person #1: amen.
About the author: Justin
I am the owner of Christianbooksbibles.com, an online retailer of Christian books, Bibles, Sunday school curriculum, Bible study materials, music, and more. I really enjoy exploring my own faith through writing some of the content for this blog. I'm a stong believer that God speaks to us through the pursuit of exploring your faith. Explore your faith.